Wild Boys

Season two kicks off with me talking about being different, why I feel different what people have done to try to change me and how to be resilient in yourself.  I talk about song lyrics because music is important to me.  Wild Boys comes from the Duran Duran song and the book by William S. Burroughs.  I hope you find connection in this episode knowing you are not alone.  We are connected for many different reasons.  Most importantly...Stay Wild!

Welcome to Hear me out: my story, podcast. A podcast about being gay and of a certain age. Each week, we deliver the best stories of gay life after 50. Now here’s your host, Dean Croll.

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Transcript

Hear Me Out S2 E1 Wild Boys - 5:1:24, 9.08 PM

Speaker: [00:00:00] Hi everyone. Well, here we are. Season two, episode one. I have been putting off, I think, recording new episodes for a while. Not entirely sure why. I've been writing a few, and I think it was because I didn't have one that I felt was a good opening episode. And then, oh, last week. You know, I was in the car listening to the radio and a certain song came on, and I'm going to get a little, I'm going to get into that a little more later, what song that was.

But I called this episode Wild Boys. I was originally going to call it I Am Different. Well, I just gave it away. That's the song Wild Boys by Duran Duran. But I am different. I am. [00:01:00] unlike anyone else. And, I'm not looking for anyone to feel sorry for me. You know, people meet me and never respond again.

And I say meet me, they, you know, I, you know, chat with them or text with them, and then we agree to meet and have lunch or have dinner. And they meet me and I never hear from them again. So either I'm not what their expectation is, or

I guess something else. I can tell you the last time I, I was texting with somebody for a week before we met and I knew from the things he was texting and the things he was saying that he had this idea. in his mind of what I was going to be like, [00:02:00] just from the things that he said. Some of them, I mean, it's not important what he said, but it was just that I could tell them what he was looking for in a person.

And I knew that wasn't me, and I should have never agreed to meet him. Only because then after the fact, I knew we weren't going to talk again, but still, after the fact, you feel bad because you start going, you know, was it this? Was it that? What did I say? You know, but don't ask me. He asked me some questions and I talked about them and he said, Oh, it sounds like you still have some anger.

I'm like, yeah. Why did you ask me that question? Like, what did you want me to say? Everything's hunky dory! Don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer. And know that you're always gonna get the truth from me. But, there was another Well, I should say, being a middle child, and [00:03:00] always maybe trying to act out to get attention, I was usually Told to be quiet, told to behave, don't do that.

Even with my ex, it was, oh, don't act like that, don't say that, don't, don't cut up in the store, don't, you know, laugh out loud. And, you know, I think people have always been trying to just make me something else. I have no idea why. So a couple of weeks ago I was invited to a dinner. And I, I got barked at, there's no other, no other way to put it.

I was having a conversation with a woman and we were talking about something that was on television, you know, obviously in the commercials. But

I, you know, I she and I were talking about this and he barked at me and I was about to say something else and he barked at me again, like he was correcting a child. And [00:04:00] I was so shocked that this person barked at me not once but twice that I just sat there. And I didn't, I didn't want to make the scene, you know, further.

Like I should have, you know, oh, get up, get up and storm out. I get it. It's his house. It's his rules. It's his dinner. And if he was under stress because family was there or whatever, okay, I get it. You know, and he snapped. It happens. I personally would have preferred you know, if he had said, Hey Hey, come outside for a minute or, you know, come in here.

I'm going to show you something. And then told me about it. But barking at me in front of other people twice I didn't find that cool. And especially since there were two of us in the conversation, it wasn't just me sitting there blabbing on and on and on about commercial products and commercials.

But I think maybe in that [00:05:00] instance, I was the easy target because I was the lesser known person. Um, anyway, that's over and done with. And there was another time that I was hired for a job, and I was told that they hired me because I was so different from everyone else. I had different views. I had different ways of doing things.

I had different ideas. And during my time at the job, they spent most of their time trying to force me to do things the way that they wanted them done. And the whole time I was there, almost two years, I really felt, this is the first time I felt like I was a square peg trying to be hammered and forced into a round hole.

So I get what that is now. I don't understand why people would say something, say [00:06:00] one thing, especially at a job. And then Do the opposite. I, I still can't, I still can't believe, you know, I still can't fathom that one. But

oh, well, I guess live and learn. I'm still learning at this age. But I was thinking of words that might describe me. I've been called a lot of words demented and stupid and a lot of negative words. And recently I've been called some positive words, strong, resilient, warrior. And I was thinking, you know, I always heard the word irreverent and I thought, Hmm, that, you know, you hear irreverent humor or someone's, you know, irreverent, said something irreverent.

And I decided that isn't me because what I found out is that when you're irreverent, you're saying things with lack of respect. And I don't, I don't mean to disrespect people. You know, by being me, I say what's on my mind, I talk [00:07:00] about things I don't mean to disrespect somebody, and I guess if someone's offended, I wish they would just pull me aside and say, hey, cut it out, or hey, whatever, but I don't know.

So I am not normal, whatever normal means.

If my presence makes someone uncomfortable Then tell me. I don't have to see you again. If you're uncomfortable around me, go ahead and say. We don't have to ever see each other or talk to each other again. Yeah, I am in the process of rediscovering myself, and I'm finally at this point in my life where I'm beginning to really like [00:08:00] myself.

It's been six years. I've been working hard on a lot of things, but I'm really excited. It's like last summer I was able to say I'm okay and I'm rediscovering who I am and I'm liking, I can honestly say that I like who I am. Do I like everything about me? No. You know, that's like everybody says, it's a work in progress, but If you don't like me, that's okay.

Again, like I was saying, I don't have to see you again. You don't have to see me again. We don't ever have to talk again. And you know what? I'm okay with that. Because if you're, if you really don't like me, I, I don't really want to ever hear from you again. I do spend, I will say this, I do spend a lot of time alone.

And I'm really okay with that. People say, Oh, I hate to be alone or I always want to be out doing something. And you know, and you've heard this before, there's a difference between being alone and being lonely. And I've had both, [00:09:00] you know, I've, I feel both sometimes at the same time. And I think part of my being alone is because I've never felt alone. That I fit in anywhere. My whole life I've never, I, well, I'm different. I've felt different. I've never felt like I fit in with any group. You know, I, I can remember elementary school. Behind our school was the playground and around the building you know, instead of grass, they had put up lots of rocks and gravel and stuff, so they didn't have to cut grass up next to the building.

And I can remember several days sitting in these rocks, just, you know, looking for cool rocks and just sitting there. And I remember, I don't remember which teacher it was, but I, it must've been third grade, maybe. She was always saying, get, get out there and play, go play, go play. And I just, [00:10:00] I didn't feel good about it.

I didn't feel like I could play with any group. And I learned a little bit over, you know, maybe by fifth grade, I think I, I had a couple of friends, a good, you know, like I remember this one friend. She's I still talk to her. She's on Facebook and we talk. But we used to hang upside down on the monkey bars and she taught me how to do that.

And so I think I learned I was better one on one instead of trying to fit into a group. I had a better time making friends with people one at a time. And I still find that's true. But I don't know if anyone does like my company because I think, again, it seems like someone is always trying to change me and I don't know why.

I mean, are they afraid of me? Are they afraid of something I [00:11:00] am? Some characteristic I have? Do I have some sort of hidden dark force that they're afraid of? There's one person. He's on Facebook too. He, ever since I met him, this was years ago when I moved to the city, I was 20 something, but he always told me I was evil incarnate and he believed I was of the devil.

I think he was just kidding me, but no, we were friends and he would tease me about it, but I think he believed it. He knows who he is. But

you know, is there, is there one person who has said they like me? I or like spending time with me. I cannot think necessarily of even one person who says to me, I like you. I like spending time with you. Oh, and so now I'm, I'm going to contradict myself. Yes. It just came to me. There is one person who has said [00:12:00] to me that he likes spending time with me and and that he likes me.

And we do have a good time. We, we talk about. Some things we, you know, we don't always talk about all the deep things. And I think that, you know, I think that is changing. I think that's, you know, how a friendship grows. You, you, you talk, you trust, you talk some more. But you know, I, I go back to this idea of the island of misfit toys. Is it possible that some of us are so different that we belong together just for that reason? We have nothing else in common except that we are so different. Is that possible? And if it is possible who would my group be, I wonder?

I don't know. I think about that. If, if there is a group that I would feel that I fit in with, [00:13:00] who might they be? I see people posting pictures and I, I get it. Don't read too much into pictures that people post, but you know, you see people at dinner parties or people go into parks together, you know, amusement parks or state parks, or, you know, five or six guys will hang out together, gay guys.

And I just wonder if I'm still missing out on something by not having those. connections and that type of group, you know, to hang out with. I've tried, you know, I think I'll talk more about some of these other things in other episodes, but I've over the last year I have done some exploration into different social activities and different social groups.

So I'll talk about my. Explorations into that, but here's a, here's a cliche. I, [00:14:00] I thought maybe being gay means I have to bring up a show tune, you know, we always talk about show tunes, but in 1964, here's your show tune. In 1964 Stephen Sondheim wrote a song called Everybody says don't, and it was for his musical Anyone Can Whistle.

Now, initially, Anyone Can Whistle was starred Lee Remick, if you know who that is. But initially it was not received well. And over time, it has gained more and more of an audience and And an acceptance. And I think the thing about Sondheim is, one, he's way better than somebody else, I'm not going to mention, because he writes both lyrics and music But I think for Sondheim, not only was he gay, I don't think that this really had anything to do with it, but I think he understood people.

I think he understood feelings. And I think he understood emotions. [00:15:00] And I think he understood love. A lot of the emotions, I think maybe all the emotions, but in this song, and I'm sure you've heard it from some other people. They sometimes sing it if you, you know, listen to anybody that sings standards or whatever, but here's some of the words, you know, everybody says, don't, everybody says, don't, don't walk on the grass.

Don't disturb the peace. Don't skate on the ice. Everybody says, don't. Don't get out of line. So it's all these things that you don't and by the end of the song, you know, the person says everybody says, wait for miracles. That's the way the world is made. I insist on miracles. If you do them, the miracles I say, don't, don't be afraid.

And I think that's. The big takeaway here is that people say, don't, don't do this, do that, be this, be that, and don't be afraid to be who you are [00:16:00] and just, you know what, put it out there. You are who you are. I am who I am. And if we don't like ourselves, I don't know who else will. So I haven't found anyone yet to, to really, you know, get in there, you know, crack that hard crusty shell and look at my, you know, Warm, gooey center, but maybe I'll just be crusty old man.

Darn kids, get out of my yard. But, um, I am kind of amazed, though, by the words in this song, that Even though it was written in 1964, which for some of you seems a world, you know, you know, hundreds of years old, but for me, it's, you know, it's before I was born. Thank you very much. So don't, don't be nasty.

But still true today. And I think they're true for me that Don't be afraid. [00:17:00] And so now this is where I'm getting into the we're going to move over to pop music and I've heard this song before. And it's just the other day I was in the car and I heard it again. And, you know, it's interesting to me that songs that we've heard for years and years and years, we sing along to them.

We know the words, but every so often when we hear a song, we are in that place. We are in that mood. Where we actually listen to the words. And the words finally mean something to us. And we've got that all inside. All of that stuff is inside us. And it's just waiting for the right moment to make its appearance.

To make itself known. just when you need it, just when you need the message, just when the universe is saying, here you go, this is for you. And so, you know, I [00:18:00] am a Duran Duran fan. I'm not the biggest fan. There's, there is somebody I know who's a bigger Duran Duran fan and he's on Facebook and he knows who he is.

But this, this song is called Wild Boys and it was, let me read some of the, some of the lyrics to you. So let's see what it says. Wild boys never lose it. Wild boys never chose the way. Wild boys never close their eyes. Wild boys always shine. And it's,

Wild boys never lose it. And, It's It spoke to me that day that Here's another line. It says, They tried to break us. Looks like they'll try again. And that, They'll try again. That hit me, and it was Wild Boys, Wild Boys, Wild Boys Always Shine, and I thought, yeah, they're gonna try and break me again, and by them, you know, you mean, I mean like the world or, you [00:19:00] know, whomever, it doesn't, I don't have anyone specific in mind, but, you know, when you feel like life is just trying to break you over and over and over, and it's like, what now, life, what else are you gonna throw at me?

And I, I, I'm sure you've felt that way. I know, I know I do. And I just was like, Wild boys always shine and I thought, yeah, I am going to be a wild boy. I am, I am going to be wild and I don't care. And if people don't like me being wild, too bad. Now what I'm going to, I'm going to go down a little tangent here on this.

What I found out about the song is that Duran Duran wrote it for a movie that was being, was going to be produced based off a book by William S. Burroughs [00:20:00] the second, called Wild Boys. And he I read it. I wanted to read it before I talked to you guys. And his life is interesting. So if you, if you want to read about, I'm not going to tell you all about his life, you can read about him, but basically he I, well, he was confused about his sexuality.

This was what in the twenties, thirties, forties, you know, he was rejected by the army or by the military. He couldn't fight in World War II. He just had all of these setbacks and rejections and he must've felt that he was so different. And unfortunately he got hooked on, I think, opium first and then heroin.

So I will say in reading his book, this book, Wild Boys, you may have heard of his other book called Naked Lunch, which they also made into a movie and that was Cronenberg made that movie and he only took parts of that book for the movie and they made up the rest [00:21:00] of the movie. So he, this Burroughs became, when he moved to New York, he got in with He was one of the people that originally started the counterculture with gosh, I want to say, yeah, here it is.

Jack. Kerouac and Allen Ginsberg. So he was friends with them and he got into this counterculture movement. And you know, that was called the beat generation. And so he actually wrote a book, I think with Jack Kerouac. I think they wrote a book together. But they loved him, you know, they called him the greatest satirical writer since Jonathan Swift and all that.

But he wrote in sort of stream of consciousness writing in what he called I think he called them cut scenes or something. And basically it was sort of this repetitive series of words and phrases. And he would even take them from other parts of the book where he had used them. And it, and it was to me reading it, I'll be honest, it was almost like those were the times.

when he took a [00:22:00] hit of heroin. It was, they were, they were chaotic to me to read. And I think if I could take out those cut scenes or whatever they're called. out of the book, you know, the book would make more sense. To me, it would. But that was his style of writing is that he didn't want to lead the reader through this you know, by the nose and spoon feed them.

He wanted them to, you know, find their own way through the book. And it's only 200 pages, you know, it's a quick read, but it's, it is a strange book. I will tell you, I am not approved. But there are some things in that book that if you, If you blush easily, do not read the book. Do not read any of his books.

He got I think it was Naked Lunch that brought about a lawsuit somewhere in New England because it was so they thought it was so filthy it violated sodomy laws or something. It was Naked Lunch, 1959. So he, you know, he caused a lot of trouble with his writing. [00:23:00] And a lot of his writing was, you know semi autobiographical.

And so I'm reading through this thinking, you know, is this part true or, or, you know, did he do this? Or you know, cause in the book he talks about things like, When he worked at a golf course, sex with a guy, you know, boys at the golf course or you know, different things that he wrote about. And I wonder which part is true, which part is made up, but through, through several of his books, I think there's two or three of the books that he talks about these wild boys and, and I won't get too much into it, but it's, he writes about the future and it's really about this sort of group of boys, young men who are gay and they have taken over, you know, they're taking over parts of the, parts of the world and, you know, they, they do these horrific acts and you know, they kill people and and there's some sort of, there's a villain, I think, that's trying to, do away with them.

And so it's, [00:24:00] you know, you've got all the makings of a great story. You've got the heroes and the villains and the fighting and, and the sex. And and for me, a lot of confusion, I'll be honest. I was, I was confused by some of it, but I think what he was getting at is that the wild boys never, like, of course they're gay, but they never felt like they fit in.

So they started their own culture almost because they were In part of the book, he talks about a ceremony where they are able to Self procreate. They do not need women to make new wild boys. And he even says that some of the wild boys have never even seen a woman. They don't even know what a woman is.

And so I think in a lot of ways I related to that. Like, I got it. Like, you know, you want to feel like you belong. Not that you want to go around in a pack killing people and stuff. But I get the idea of having your own sort of group that you belong to. And You [00:25:00] know, you have a history with them, and you have all of these things that you know about each other, and So I could relate to that part of it.

So I'm still sticking with wild boys. I'm still going to call myself a wild boy and I'm going to do wild things. And I hope you do too. So you know, I think about why people would try to change me or you, or do you ever think about that? Like what is their motivation? And I kind of think, I like to think for myself is that I'm going to do something great.

I'm going to do something. beyond great one day and they are just trying to stop me from doing it and maybe like Burroughs, I challenge people to think about life and things differently and that's uncomfortable for them. Maybe I do make people uncomfortable unintentionally and maybe that's why they try to get me to mold into something else that's safe.

[00:26:00] Maybe, I was thinking just maybe, they see that, that bit of greatness, you know, under there somewhere. And they're jealous of it or afraid of it that I could become what I could become or what I could do with that greatness. So if my greatness is coming all I can say out there to everybody is look out baby cause the wild boys are coming.

Yeah, I, I hope that you can get something from this. I hope you can know that you're not alone. Even if you feel isolated and feel like you don't belong maybe that's what will bring us all together is that we have that same common feeling of we don't belong. And I am going to give you a little secret about me.

I am, in the past, I've done two, two big things for myself that I did not, I did not feel guilty about. They were things [00:27:00] that I wanted to do. One of them was that I got braces and I fixed my teeth because I hated my teeth. And then the other one was that I did get some liposuction to, so that I felt better because I could look better.

I knew it wasn't, it wasn't for weight loss. It was just that I wanted to look better and those sound vain and shallow, but they really did help me feel better about myself and like myself even more. And you may disagree with me, but too bad. And so I'm, I'm on the verge. of doing one more thing for myself that's a big change in my appearance.

And I may tell you more about that in another episode. It's I'm going to start that journey in a couple of days. So stay tuned for that one. Stay wild, everyone. Thanks for listening and I'll talk to you again [00:28:00] soon.